[MA-SOC] Fansubbers are evil! EEEEVVVVVIIIIILLLLL!

Richard Fung aoshi00 at hotmail.com
Sun Nov 25 13:04:38 EST 2007




Frankly, I don't follow much the current state of the anime industry here.  But yeah, I think the Sevakis guy hit it right on the nail, the excellent article says it all.  I have always hated that silly "break in and steal" analogy..  

I guess my mentality is more of a Jpn otaku then, in that I have a chance to see the shows first aired and willing to spend a lot on what's worth collecting (no Moe stuff for me though). 

If the U.S can work out timely online distribution w/ subscription fee, subbed or raw, I would gladly pay.

Rich -- finally fishished "Archaic Sealed Heat" on the DS, hand cramped from holding the stylus for a whole week, dang you Sakuguchi!  Sakimoto Hitoshi's soundtrack is so good that Just ordered the OST, and Drama CD as well.


----------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 11:09:26 -0500
> From: thegline at optonline.net
> To: ma-nyc-soc at lists.baka.org
> Subject: Re: [MA-SOC] Fansubbers are evil! EEEEVVVVVIIIIILLLLL!
> 
> A friend and I were having a discussion about this very issue not long ago, and I mentioned the possibility of having the Japanese networks set up some kind of English-language syndication affiliate.  If someone offered something like that domestically, I'd snap it up.  It could be offered through any number of existing channels-- not just cable TV, but Joost or NetFlix, for instance.
> 
> But it sounds like such a thing would be at least 1 to 2 years away, even if they started working on it right this minute.  If the last decade has taught me anything about media companies in general, it is that they are hide-bound and reactive, not progressive.  They won't take risks until their failures are literally eating them whole.
> 
> * * * * *
> Serdar Yegulalp
> thegline at optonline.net
> 
> My problems have become social rather than musical.
>   -- John Cage, composer
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ma-nyc-soc-bounces at lists.baka.org [mailto:ma-nyc-soc-
> > bounces at lists.baka.org] On Behalf Of Ralph Young
> > Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 10:30 AM
> > To: Metro Anime New York City--social list
> > Subject: Re: [MA-SOC] Fansubbers are evil!
> > EEEEVVVVVIIIIILLLLL!
> > 
> > Sevakis rarely disappoints.   Yeah, he makes excellent
> > points.
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Danny Minhas" <sejiro at yahoo.com>
> > To: "Metro Anime New York City--social list" <ma-nyc-
> > soc at lists.baka.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 9:44 AM
> > Subject: Re: [MA-SOC] Fansubbers are evil!
> > EEEEVVVVVIIIIILLLLL!
> > 
> > 
> > > http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/editorial/2007-11-25
> > >
> > > Read this it's a great reply.  I actually agree with most
> > of what is said
> > > here.
> > >
> > > Ralph Young <ralphyoung at optonline.net> wrote: Our recent
> > debates are
> > > echoed by the industry, particularly Arthur Smith of GBH
> > Entertainment:
> > >
> > > http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2007-11-24/gdh-int'l-
> > head-condemns-illegal-anime-distribution
> > >
> > > With all due respect, I'm tired of the hypocrisy inherent
> > in this issue.
> > > Anime is an industry built solidly on a foundation of
> > illegal copyright
> > > infringement.  From the fan doujinshi that gave CLAMP and
> > Ken Akamatsu
> > > their starts, to the Daicon animation that launched Gainax,
> > to Monkey
> > > Punch appropriating the character of Lupin for his own
> > purposes, to the
> > > licensed American distributors who started out as
> > fansubbers themselves
> > > (most of them did, you know).  While I won't go so far as
> > to say that
> > > *nobody* has completely clean hands, copyright infringement
> > has been the
> > > rule, not the exception, at every level of the quote
> > industry unquote on
> > > both sides of the Pacific.
> > >
> > > What Arthur Smith, and most of the "Shame on You for
> > Watching Fansubs"
> > > faction consistently fail to mention is that the American
> > market that
> > > fansubs are supposedly killing was created by fansubs in
> > the first place.
> > > Without fansubs, nobody over here would have heard of this
> > crap in the
> > > first place.  Legit distributors spent decades trying and
> > failing to
> > > create a market for anime in America.  With one or two
> > exceptions like
> > > Speed Racer and Robotech, they failed miserably.  Foreign
> > popular
> > > entertainment just didn't fly with the masses; between the
> > costs
> > > associated with international negotiation and the costs of
> > distributing in
> > > "legitimate" channels, it was simply too expensive to
> > market enough
> > > material to develop a loyal fanbase.
> > >
> > > The isolated attempts at legitimate marketing created too
> > few sparks, too
> > > far apart, to actually light a fire.  Left to those
> > devices, a few
> > > American consumers in the 70s and 80s might see something
> > like "Warriors
> > > of the Wind" (the hacked up but entirely legal re-edit of
> > Nausicaa of the
> > > Valley of the Wind that got an extremely limited theatrical
> > release here
> > > in the 1980s) once or twice in their life and consider them
> > intriguing
> > > oddities, but almost none of them considered it a
> > sufficient basis for an
> > > actual hobby of consumerism.
> > >
> > > With perhaps one exception -- the first fansubbers.
> > >
> > > They saw stuff like Warriors of the Wind and the then-
> > untranslated release
> > > of Akira and wanted more of it, but there were no channels
> > to provide it
> > > to them.  So they made their own.  They devoted millions of
> > man-hours of
> > > labor translating, subtitling, and distributing these
> > materials, they
> > > engaged in grass-roots marketing on an incredible scale.
> > And you know
> > > what?  Most of that effort went entirely uncompensated.
> > They saw the
> > > potential, they put in the blood and sweat, and they
> > created the market,
> > > motivated almost entirely by a love of the subject matter
> > and a desire to
> > > share it with others.
> > >
> > > Then legitmate businessmen like Arthur Smith showed up and
> > said "Hey,
> > > you've done what we couldn't -- built up a solid niche
> > market of loyal
> > > consumers.  Well, we're going to take them away from you
> > now.  No, we're
> > > not going to pay you anything, or give you any credit, or
> > even thank you.
> > > In fact, we are publically going to call you thieves and
> > privately
> > > threaten you with litigation.  We will send our kids to
> > college by
> > > exploiting your hard work, and when we die we will ascend
> > unblemished to
> > > Businessman Heaven while you starve to death and burn
> > forever in Fanboy
> > > Hell, watching nothing but commercially edited dubs of
> > Warriors of the
> > > Wind and Cardcaptors for all eternity."
> > >
> > > Screw that noise.
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
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