[MA-SOC] [OT] Re: V Tech Tragic Event this morning (stillgoingand going)

Serdar Yegulalp thegline at optonline.net
Fri Apr 20 18:16:51 EDT 2007


Speaking of the UK, apparently there's a push over there to ban replica samurai swords as well.  I can't imagine that one going over very well, either.

* * * * *
Serdar Yegulalp
thegline at optonline.net

My problems have become social rather than musical.
  -- John Cage, composer


> -----Original Message-----
> From: ma-nyc-soc-bounces at lists.baka.org [mailto:ma-nyc-soc-
> bounces at lists.baka.org] On Behalf Of Tanusukma, Peggy
> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 5:27 PM
> To: Metro Anime New York City--social list
> Subject: Re: [MA-SOC] [OT] Re: V Tech Tragic Event this morning
> (stillgoingand going)
> 
> I completely agree with Jill-san's last comments on enforcing gun
> control law better. If the NRA people want to yammer about "the right
> to
> bear arms", they should also accept the civic RESPONSIBILITY of
> allowing
> Law Enforcement agency to do their jobs in making sure no
> criminals/mentally disturbed/underage citizens got their hands on
> such
> "weapons of mass destruction" (mass= a lot of dead people- like that
> crazy fella who killed the volunteer cops in Manhattan just last
> month)
> 
> 
> 
> I saw the statistics on gun control yesterday on NY1 and was
> appalled-
> only 2000 ATF (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearm) agents to police over
> 100,000 gun dealers; England with its sizeable gun owning citizenry
> (larger in comparative total population to the United States) only
> have
> about 500 violent gun related deaths compared to America's 11,000
> plus
> (which doesn't include the over 20,000 "accidental deaths" from
> guns).
> New York City has one of the toughest gun permit laws in the US with
> double checks by both law enforcement officials and separate
> background
> checks by dealers, compared to Virginia's "over-the-counter"
> approach.
> For all of NRA's cries of "violation of privacy", I don't understand
> why
> if you have a legitimate reason for owning a gun (hunting,
> self-protection) you would complain about waiting 3 weeks for a gun
> permit. It's not as if you have anything to hide, isn't it? (unless
> of
> course you ARE a criminal) I mean dammit people, if you can wait 6
> months for a pre-sold DVD or the latest Harry bleeding Potter, 3
> weeks
> is NOTHING.
> 
> 
> 
> For every person who uses a gun to "stop a crime", at least 10 are
> dead
> from one.
> 
> 
> 
> It's so stupid that these gun-rights people only talk about their
> rights
> and kept silent about their RESPONSIBILITY as a current/future gun
> owner.
> 
> 
> 
> Having a gun is not only a right, but also a PRIVILEGE that comes
> with
> its own sets of civic obligations. Anthony, our resident gun expert
> should agree with me about the necessity of being trained to use and
> keep a gun properly. Anyone who has any links to the military would
> no
> doubt agree.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe America should reword that "right to bear arms" to "the
> privilege
> to bear arms" in that Constitution since so many so conveniently
> forgot
> about the flip side of any rights.
> 
> 
> 
> Peggy
> 
> - Self-proclaimed military history otaku + weapons lover (but a
> responsible one, dang it!)
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ma-nyc-soc-bounces at lists.baka.org
> [mailto:ma-nyc-soc-bounces at lists.baka.org] On Behalf Of Richard Fung
> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 2:49 PM
> To: ma-nyc-soc at lists.baka.org
> Subject: Re: [MA-SOC] [OT] Re: V Tech Tragic Event this morning
> (stillgoingand going)
> 
> 
> 
> Another funny but true comment from the "games politics" site
> provided
> by
> Ricardo..
> 
> >1.     ted Says: April 17th, 2007 at 7:28 am Why not change the US's
> gunlaws?
> >Because such a great deal of Americans are retarded and think they
> can
> >protect themselves with >weapons if necessary. Guns are only
> effective
> if
> >you're the only one having them, everything else >will just result
> in a
> 
> >shootout. Compared to the rest of the industrial countries, America
> is
> the
> >wild >wild west, and that is nothing to be proud of.  Change your
> >constitution!
> 
> Rich
> 
> 
> From: Oneirophile at aol.com
> >Reply-To: Metro Anime New York City--social list
> ><ma-nyc-soc at lists.baka.org>
> >To: ma-nyc-soc at lists.baka.org
> >Subject: Re: [MA-SOC] [OT] Re: V Tech Tragic Event this morning
> >(stillgoingand going)
> >Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 21:19:28 EDT
> >
> >
> >
> >Disa-chan,
> >
> >Under normal circumstances, this is very wise and compassionate
> advice.
> >But
> >unfortunately, things don't always work out that way.
> >
> > >From what I understand, many of Cho's fellow students repeatedly
> reached
> >out
> >to him, tried to talk to him and bring him out of his shell.  One
> girl
> 
> >even
> >offered him some Halloween candy in order to get him into a
> conversation.
> >But in every case, he rejected these attempts at outreach,  reacting
> in
> a
> >hostile and antisocial manner.
> >
> >The reality is that some people are just too damaged to be healed by
> their
> >peers.  Such people need heavy-duty professional help, which
> unfortunately
> >Cho
> >never received.  He was hospitalized at least twice, but  few mental
> >hospitals are really equipped to deal with such deeply ingrained
> problems
> >on a
> >short-term basis.  This young man was  desperately in need of
> intensive,
> >long-term
> >therapy, but didn't get  it.
> >
> >As mentioned before, there is evidence in Cho's so-called "plays" to
> >suggest
> >that he was raped by a family member or other close adult when he
> was a
> 
> >child.  I personally know two women who are incest survivors, and
> they
> both
> >  went
> >through hell for the greater part of their younger lives.  But they
> >eventually received the help they needed to deal with their trauma,
> and
> 
> >became
> >compassionate and successful adults.
> >
> >It is possible that, for whatever reason, Cho never had the
> opportunity
> to
> >heal from the trauma he suffered as a child.  Whether it was rape,
> incest,
> >or
> >some other sort of abuse, he obviously was psychologically so
> damaged
> that
> >no
> >one could reach him.  Despite sincere efforts by his  classmates to
> >communicate with him, he was no longer able to form normal human
> >relationships.
> >
> >Remember, too, that Cho had a history of stalking young women.  He
> also
> >had
> >a habit of taking pictures of his female classmates' knees and
> thighs
> with
> >his cell phone camera under the seat.  How could any of those women
> reach
> >out
> >to him?  Would you -- or any other woman -- want to establish a
> friendship
> >with someone who violated you in this manner?
> >
> >I believe that the above makes that woman who offered Cho the candy
> even
> >more heroic.... but it still didn't matter.  He rejected her, as he
> >rejected
> >anyone else in his college classes who attempted to reach out to
> him.
> >
> >When someone consistently reacts with unprovoked hostility to his
> peers
> >and
> >teachers, when he stares everyone down in a threatening manner (as
> he
> did
> >with his poetry teacher, Nikki Giovanni), that person is at very
> least
> in
> >need
> >of long-term therapy.  Would long-term therapy have  helped someone
> as
> >damaged
> >as Cho Seung-Hui?  I don't know.  But it  might have -- and if it
> did,
> more
> >than 30 young people would still be alive  today.
> >
> >Now, regarding Rich-san's comments re gun control:
> >
> >I absolutely DO believe that gun sales should be regulated....
> regulated,
> >but not prohibited.  Many people need guns for their jobs, and not
> just
> 
> >police
> >officers -- locksmiths who work in dangerous neighborhoods, security
> >guards,
> >and many others must carry guns to protect themselves.  In
> addition,
> there
> >are all too many women stalked by ex-husbands, ex-boyfriends,  and
> just
> 
> >plain
> >nutcases, who know damn well that restraining orders aren't worth
> the
> >paper
> >they're written on.  Such women (and possibly even some men) have  a
> right
> >to
> >carry guns for peace of mind.
> >
> >That being said, it makes sense to fingerprint, photograph,  and do
> a
> >thorough background check on anyone wishing to buy a  firearm.  Had
> such a
> >background
> >check been done on Cho Seung-Hui, his  documented history of
> >hospitalization
> >for mental illness would have been  red-flagged, and a gun would not
> have
> >been
> >sold to him.
> >
> >Unfortunately, gun dealers are notoriously lax about such things.  I
> saw
> >the
> >man who sold him the gun being interviewed on TV, and he
> disingenuously
> 
> >complained that Cho "lied on his application" (about his history of
> >psychiatric
> >hospitalizations).  Say WHAT?  If gun laws were really enforced in
> this
> >country, Cho's background would have been thoroughly checked before
> the
> gun
> >  dealer
> >even considered selling him a firearm.
> >
> >IMHO, outlawing gun possession by civilians is not the answer.
> Rather,
> >current gun laws should be rigidly enforced -- requiring
> fingerprinting,
> >photo
> >ID, and intensive background checks for *anyone* applying for a
> firearm
> 
> >license.  I don't buy into the argument that this is a violation of
> >privacy.... if
> >you're going to use the gun for non-criminal purposes, you should
> have
> no
> >objection to complying with these safeguards.
> >
> >Just 2 yen from your Burukkurin buddy,
> >Jill
> >
> >
> >+ + + + + + +  + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
> >VOCATUS ATQUE NON VOCATUS DEUS  ADERIT
> >("Bidden or not bidden, God is present")
> >+ + + + + + + + + + + + +  + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
> >
> >
> >
> >In a message dated 4/19/2007 6:01:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> >mandisaw at earthlink.net writes:
> >
> >How the  hell does somebody go through their
> >entire life at school or at work  without anybody really talking to
> them?
> >It's isolation folks. We've got all  kinds of ways to communicate,
> but
> how
> >many people chat with their  co-workers or their neighbors? Before
> somebody
> >is a seething ball of  homicidal rage, they're usually just a
> terribly
> >frightened, lonely person.  Fear and loneliness can lead to
> desperate
> >actions, like a neglected kid  lashing out.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >************************************** See what's free at
> >http://www.aol.com <http://www.aol.com> .
> >_______________________________________________
> >ma-nyc-soc mailing list
> >ma-nyc-soc at lists.baka.org
> >http://lists.baka.org/mailman/listinfo/ma-nyc-soc
> <http://lists.baka.org/mailman/listinfo/ma-nyc-soc>
> 
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